Reply to The Trail Observations

I rode the Erie Canal trail last week from Buffalo to Albany. I used my rode bike without any issues although the trail has a lot of varied conditions. The trail is a resource with a ton of potential. But present day conditions in many areas leave a lot to be desired. It amazed me that some areas are paved, others crushed cinder and others packed dirt. I was happy not to have to repair any flats. Also was amazed how little those who live near the canal know about it including where the trail start is in their town. At one point I was down to an 18 inch wide strip of a trail - fortunately not for a very long distance. I expected these varied conditions but could imagine how exceptional the experience will be once the trail has consistently good pavement for riding. What disappointed me was how poor the directional signs are along the trail. Some are so faded you had to get really close to them to see which way the arrow was pointing. And in other instances you’d follow that arrow only to not find another sign that would tell you where to turn next. Once I found myself dumped off the trail into a large course stone lot where I had to carry my bike. Fortunately someone came along who pointed me where to head on the other side of the lot. I had several instance where the trail was closed for construction with no detour signs. The Erie Canal Trail interactive map really isn’t interactive to a large degree. A huge opportunity to improve this. There is an icon on the site for GPS that didn’t work for me. The website was helpful though in identifying places along the trail for an easy off hotel room. As for the canal some areas are wonderful areas of recreation with working locks. Other areas are abandoned algae covered stagnant waterways long ago abandoned. The green algae rivals the green landscapes in Ireland! I loved it when local pride took some ownership of the trail. Even with that don’t plan on any restrooms along the way with limited exceptions. Porta potties would have been welcomed. Also mile markers along the route would have been nice. I know that there are plans to spend millions of taxpayer money to improve the trail. In the near-term take a few thousands of dollars to do some intermediate things that would make immediate and simple improvements.

MJ: Great recap and I liked with your opinion that it has a lot of potential but also leaves a lot to be desired. I agree with the need for some simple improvements to make it easier to navigate.

The signage, both mile markers and directional signs, are severely lacking or poor overall. This is one thing they could easily and cheaply fix first and foremost. I did the organized PTNY Cycle the Erie Canal tour and they have some painted markers at turns and some of us still got lost a few times! They need accurate mile markers from Buffalo to Albany. How has this never been done yet?

In addition, where does the trail end and begin? They need some medallion or sign to lets people know you've reached Mile 0 or the end to celebrate their accomplishment. In Buffalo, I think the end/beginning is the Commercial Slip at Canalside. In Albany, I think the end/beginning is that Jennings Landing. That's my guess but neither contain a sign saying so. Is this really going to break their budget by adding these? Some informational signs as you approach towns would be helpful as it could list the miles to the next 2-3 towns plus all logos for food, water, lodging. This helps both cyclists and businesses.

I accept that there are different surfaces. I actually don't mind a mix of some dirt mule paths, crushed limestone, or paved asphalt as long as it's smooth. It gives the trail some character. I will say some of the crushed limestone gets soupy when it rains and doesn't drain as good as a rail-trail does (due to the ballast left underneath). As long as they keep on top of the bumpy tree roots under the asphalt, any really bad washouts of the limestone, and potholes/cracks, I'm fine with it. I don't expect them to ever pave the entire thing.

Bathrooms are severely lacking. Parks and Trails New York (PTNY) manages the trail and I'd like to see them devote some cash to some more port a johns and water faucets spaced along the trail.

In addition, perhaps later in the future, how about some campsites? It would be great to be able to stay the night and camp along the trail.

As for locals not really knowing about the trail, I think they may know about it as a waterway but not as a recreational trail. Seems odd to me as people from all over use the Erie Canal not just to cross the state but for some, its just one state while crossing the entire country, some from overseas. I know the GAP trail (Pittsburgh to Cumberland) has a had a very visible "Trail Towns" business marketing push and this has led to great things for cyclists in these pass through towns. Restaurants, bike repair shops, lodging, etc. marketed and targeted to cyclists and it's been very successful. Maybe when this becomes part of the greater Empire State Trail, they will make better push with these towns for them to realize what a gem they have on their hands.

Yeah, that interactive map is poor and needs updated. On top of that, I'd like to see them create some real PDF map like the GAP or C&O Canal. These show all of the water fountains, towns with restaurants, camping sites, bike repair shops, picnic areas, and mile markers.

John

John covered the situation pretty well, but here's a couple of my comments for balance. Signage is certainly not up to par and, as John mentioned, shouldn't take much to improve. The "Empire State Trial" signs are a waste in that they are not directional but rather simply markers (and mostly right along a Canalway sign). Personally, I could care less about mileage markers, but that's just a personal opinion. However, I did have success with following Google Maps in "Bike" route mode. It lead me onto the Canalway and, if I was confused, got me to the right place. I found that any detours were marked fine. Regarding services like water and potty stops -- I never had an issue with using local convenient stores or restaurants, etc. and... I traveled in June at the height of COVID-19 situation. I would like to see cyclist campsites identified or developed. Bikepacking is becoming ever more popular -- I think I traveled as a modified bikepacker -- not minimalist, but certainly light and efficient. Lastly, trail surfaces -- I agree with John about variety making it interesting. I disliked the pavement with tree roots greatly. On a recent ride (I believe in the Boston area) I saw that they had scrapped away the bulging surfaces -- somewhat like they do to reclaim roadway surfaces. Not the best, but it took away the bumpy ride. Bike on -- it's all a great adventure!

Good comments from John and Bubba.

I didn’t venture off trail much except after a long day of riding to find a place to stay for the night. Most convenience stores, etc are not visible from the trail so you would need to stop and use your smart phone to try to figure out where you are and how to find them. That’s why I think their website could be made more useful, that trail signs letting know where you are could be more frequent, and directional signs improved. Your GPS comment was helpful. Porta potties seems like a low cost item for the Parks to consider. I frankly am miffed why they aren’t present anywhere. John, I agree that knowing where the trail begins and ends would be nice! And, while you hit mud on the cinder parts I went during a dry spell that kicked up a lot of stone dust. I’m fine too with the variable types of trail surfaces but I think pavement is way to go for the future. I also got jarred more than once by tree roots bulging the pavement. I was surprised my road bike tires tolerated them. Some areas did have then scraped down like Bubba suggests but it was inconsistent which is why I think the Parks awareness, oversight and ownership of the entire trail could be improved with some pretty simple, low soft measures.

As mentioned the Trail is a great resource and has great potential to be spectacular. I definitely could see riding it again. It has much to offer in the current context and could be so much greater in the future.

Nice MJ. I think we are all on the same page with what the trail currently offers, the improvements that could easily be made and the enhancements that could make it, as you suggested, spectacular. I'm hoping that the Canalway Corp does some monitoring on this site to see our suggestions.

Glad I could be of some help. The only thing I think I may have done that might be worth mentioning here is that I did ask a bunch of questions of residents, other riders, canal personnel or store/business owners fairly often and found that any advise that I was given was spot on. Possibly I got more direction on what was around for food, supplies and repairs that I needed and didn't have to consult my smart phone as much. Regardless, internet availability seemed ever-present, so answers were only a tap or two away.

Glad your road bike made it without issues and happy that you had an enjoyable ride. I think I'm up for another tour next year, but know that the C&O (and possibly with the GAP) are in the plans. :-)

I grew up in and around Syracuse so I know it well. But riding the Erie Canal this summer through Syracuse was a very tough. The signage is the worst. How hard would it be to put up a bunch of signs that gave you some clue that you are on the right path?

I only know the canal from Palmyra west. Looking at the site map, I'm surprised by the numbers of roads one must ride father east. It looks to be all roads going through Syracuse. Or I'm reading the map wrong?

Bop - no, you're reading it correctly. The trail (or route) goes on city street right through SYR. I thought it was okay - but I did manage to bust a spoke -- probably from the crappy road surface.

IAs I was entering the SYR looked at the Guide map and then brought up Google maps and used BIKE mode -- the map routed me the same way! So, I just followed the map directions from my phone. No issue at all. However, I'm comfortable with city riding and sorta enjoy the change.

According to the official website, that section of the EST will not open until 2021: https://empiretrail.ny.gov/syracuse-utica/syracuse-dewitt

Bktourer1 - Interesting how they are routing the path. No doubt a pathway running in the center of Erie Blvd should be reminiscent of the GAP Trail coming out of PGH along the interstate. Thanks for the link.

I plan to bike the Erie canal trail later this year. The discussion on unclear signage is a bit concerning. However, between google, map.me and asking the locals and fellow riders, I hope it will work out. Since 2013 (when I turned 67) I've hiked 2 different caminos in Spain, France and Portugal on 4 different occasions (yes,it's wonderful and addicting!) The signage there, simple yellow arrows, is excellent. Starting in 2016 I've also biked the GAP/C&O, most of the Moselle river, most of the Rhine river and the Danube river (Passau, Germany to Budapest, Hungary.) The signage on all of these bike routes are excellent. Proof of the pudding: I never failed to reach my daily destination. Hopefully this will be the case soon on the EST.

Ho Nguyen,
The signage in some places is limited, but it is certainly not an issue to find your way. As mentioned elsewhere, the EST signage tends to be markers as opposed to directional... and I can't imagine that that has changed in the last 8 months. You have already picked up on the Google Maps suggestion so you'll be fine. [Frankly, I'm not sure it wouldn't be pretty easy to load in Google Maps using Bike Mode and set your destination as Albany (or Buffalo) and find yourself on the Canalway most to the time.]